Episode 173 | Disney‑Level Client Experience & Subscription Pricing With Debra Kilsheimer

Client experience must be provided in the most convenient and fulfilling way, not only for clients themselves but also for the business owner. For our New Year episode, Michelle Weinstein sits down with QuickBooks wizard Debra Kilsheimer, who shares how they created a Disney-like customer service. She explains how she treats accountants and bookkeepers with utmost respect and closeness as she helps turn their goals into reality. Debra also talks about achieving millions in revenue even with just a “two-and-a-half” team and how she set prices for her subscriptions while considering the real-life circumstances of her clients.

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Episode 173 | Disney‑Level Client Experience & Subscription Pricing With Debra Kilsheimer

I hope everyone had a lovely holiday and a lovely New Year’s Eve. It is New Year’s Day, and I wanted to wish everyone a Happy New Year’s Day from the Abundant Accountant family to you and yours. I am wishing you all a prosperous new year. We have a very special guest here. Our special guest is the CPA and partner in Behind the Scenes Financials, where she runs the show year-round with her husband and handles everything during tax season and throughout the year. She’s also a QuickBooks Wizard, a national speaker, and a Top 100 ProAdvisor who believes accounting firms should ditch the stuffy rules.

After passing the CPA exam back in 1981 and briefly loathing the accounting industry, she rebuilt the profession on her own terms in her firm with her husband. It is tech-savvy, client-focused, and fun. You’ll read about that in this episode. Our special guest is also a violin-playing, yarn-chasing grandmother who still teaches QuickBooks like a rockstar. She met her husband on the internet.

Before we welcome her to the show, if you are drowning in low-value client work or dreading another busy season, and you know that means long nights, endless emails, and barely any time for a family, and you’re constantly stressed or exhausted, wondering if this is how things should be, the truth is, none of that is the real problem. The real problem is that you don’t have a system to convert your ideal clients into premium-paying clients. You’re not maximizing your revenue, and you don’t have a path to gain back your freedom.

Here at The Abundant Accountant, I’ll show you the exact system that has helped hundreds of firm owners eliminate AR, finally enjoy their firm again, and work the hours they want to work without ever having to chase down paperwork or payments from a client ever again. If you’re ready to stop trading time for dollars, go to TheAbundantCall.com and book your complimentary strategy call with me and my team. We’ll look at your current setup, uncover your biggest revenue blockers, and lay out a roadmap to create the firm that you have always dreamt of having. Once again, head on over to TheAbundantCall.com. Now, let’s welcome our very special guest, Debra, to the show.

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Welcome, Debra, to the show.

Thank you. I’m excited to be here.

How Debra Became An Accountant – And Hated It

Thank you so much for being here and taking the time to join us here on the show. I have already done your intro, but I always think it’s better to come directly from the source. For those that don’t know you, I would love it if you could briefly share a little bit of who you are and the successful practice and firm that you have.

My name is Debra Kilsheimer, and I have a practice here in Port Orange, Florida. Port Orange is known for two things. One, it’s where Ryan Lochte, the Olympic swimmer, learned to swim, and where Eileen Wuronos, the female serial killer, was arrested. It’s a little town South of Daytona Beach and North of New Smyrna Beach.

I’ve been partners with my husband, who does all the income tax, and I do everything else. I always like to say I could do income tax, but if I did, he would do nothing. We’ve been at this for 23 or 24 years now. We met on the internet. I wanted a boyfriend, and I put an ad on the internet back in the day. He answered, and I said, “What do you do?” He goes, “I have my own accounting practice.” I’m like, “He’s probably as dull as dishwater.”

Was he?

No. I swore when I went on this mission to find somebody to go to the movies with that I would meet everybody. A lot of people look good on paper, and then you meet them and they are stinko. They’re like clients. They all sound great when they call you, and then you meet them and you go, “This guy’s a jerk.” I said, “I’ll meet everybody.” I met him, and I liked him. He was decent, kind, and nice. He was everything you look for in somebody. I liked him. He had a tax and accounting practice, and I was working at a big law firm, teaching computers to attorneys and their staff. They had offices all over the country. I loved that job.

I passed my CPA exam back in 1982. I remember it was April 16th, a Friday afternoon in 1982. It was 3:00 in the afternoon. We were exhausted. I looked at the clock, and it was 3:00. I said to the boss, “Could we go home?” He goes, “No, I pay you to sit there.” I thought, “I cannot do this for another 40 years, waiting for Friday at 5:00.” I was looking at a Mary Kay sales director’s tax return, and she was making 4 times what I was making. I’m thinking, “I’m a big-time CPA. She sells makeup. She’s making more money than me and she’s happy all the time.”

I called her and said, “Valerie, I couldn’t help but notice how much you make. Can you show me how to make that kind of money? I’m not in sales. My mom was a gym teacher. I don’t even know how to put makeup on at all.” She said, “Can you read?” I go, “Yeah, I passed the CPA exam.” She goes, “I can teach you.” I said, “Okay.” I went to a Mary Kay Sales Director meeting, and I went, “These people are happy, and they’re going to teach me how to do it.” I became a Mary Kay Beauty Consultant of all things.

Two weeks later, I walked into my boss’ office and said, “I quit. I never want to do this again. This is a horrible profession. Nobody likes you. You work six-minute intervals. I had to keep track of my time. That was the dumbest thing I’d ever heard of. This is awful.” We were always looking backwards. I remember I took a part-time job at a CPA firm. I walked in and said, “Where are the computers?” They were like, “We don’t have computers here.” I said, “Why not?” They go, “It’s because we wouldn’t charge the clients as much.” I was like, “What?” I thought, “This profession stinks. This is awful. I hate this job.”

I grew up in an accounting family. My dad was a business manager. He would show me how to do tax returns in the basement instead of playing ball with me. I was always around accounting. Some people keep scrapbooks of what they do. I kept canceled checks. I can go through my canceled checks and say, “I remember where I was when I wrote that check.” That’s how I kept track of my history. I was always around that. I quit being a CPA. I thought, “This is terrible.”

Finding Real Purpose In Building Her Own Firm

That’s important to bring up because that’s what we’re going to transition to. It was how much you hated the profession and how things were run. A lot of firm owners struggle with how they run their firms, especially on the sales side of things, the pricing, and everything else. You are running the firm with your husband. All he does is execute the work, and all you do is run the show with two and a half people. This Mary Kay position has something to do with it. Why don’t you carry on and share? You quit your job after two weeks, told the Mary Kay person that you could read, and they were going to teach you.

She did. She said exactly what to do, like when I became an accountant. It was like, “This is how you do this, and this is how you do that.” I did everything she asked me to do. There was a consultant’s guide, and I followed it. A year later, I had my first car. I drove the pink Cadillac. I got them in code. I got the Bumblebee. Ten years later, I said, “I want a new challenge.” That’s when personal computers came out.

I started to do newsletters for Mary Kay sales directors. That was very successful because personal computers were coming on. I always loved the computer. I then got a job at this law firm. I thought I’d be there for the rest of my life, and then they did away with my department one day. They came in and went, “We’re doing away with your department, so we don’t need you anymore.” I’m like, “What am I going to do?”

A month prior to that is when I met Hal. I called him up and said, “I lost my job. I don’t know what I’m going to do.” He goes, “You’re a CPA. Why don’t you work for me until you find something?” I said, “Only if I can run a CPA firm like I think it should be run. No hourly billing, flat rate prices, thinking forward, be progressive, use all the technology that’s available, and talk to your clients about what they can achieve, not what happened in the past.” He goes, “Good. I like tax. You do everything else.” I said, “Great. I need this program called QuickBooks.” He goes, “What do you need that for? Can’t you use Excel?” He was one of these cheapo accountants.

My birthday was coming up. He goes, “What do you want for your birthday?” I said, “Would you buy me a $1,000 piece of jewelry?” You have to understand. I am not a girly girl. He would’ve liked a girly girl. He goes, “Absolutely, I would buy you a piece of jewelry. Let’s go to this store right now.” I said, “It’s your lucky day. I want to be a QuickBooks ProAdvisor, and that only costs $500.”

He goes, “You want that?” I go, “Yeah, it’s my birthday. I should get what I want.” He goes, “Okay.” I became a QuickBooks ProAdvisor, and that year, I hit six figures. I said, “See? It paid for itself.” From then on, he was smart enough to know that I knew what I was talking about. I always ran the firm like that. I never tracked my time, and I always would talk to clients about what they could become through their accounting.

I lived near Disney World. When you call up Disney World and say, “I want to go to Disney World for a vacation. How much will it cost?” They don’t ask you, “How many rides are you going to go on? How many ice cream cones are you going to eat? How many times are you going to ask the staff where the bathroom is?” I thought, “That’s what we do as accountants.” We’re like, “How many bank accounts do you have? How many times are you going to call me for questions?” How glamorous is that? I thought, “I’m going to price like Disney. I’m going to create an experience for them and a transformation.”

I always ask my clients from the beginning, “If your business could succeed beyond your wildest dreams, what would it mean to you? I can help make that happen.” I always use the Disney store. I said, “There were two guys. One guy comes home one day and goes, ‘I’d like to build a theme park.’ The other one looked at him and went, ‘Let me help make that happen.’ That was Walt Disney and Roy Disney.” Walt was the visionary, but Roy was the accountant behind the scenes. It would not have happened without Roy. I tell my clients that. I’m like, “You’re Walt, and I’m Roy. Let’s build your theme park. What do you want it to look like?”

I love that. That’s one of the unique differences in how you’ve created this successful firm. A lot of firm owners need to know this story. You start at six figures. Your firm has done over $1 million in revenue, and you’re only two people.

Two and a half people. I have a part-timer, and she works remotely.

Setting The Right Prices For Their Services

I love it. It’s you, your husband, and a remote person. You’re creating a different experience. You’re creating this experience, as you had mentioned with Disney, of, “What do you want your business to look like? What would be your ideal transformation if things could change?” I love your Disney analogy. Maybe you can share what you say to clients when you’re like, “You’re Walt, and I’m Roy,” because you’re the accountant behind the scenes.

They get the analogy. Then, I talk to them about, “What is your vision for yourself? What’s important to you now if you knew you could not fail? What would you do if you had all the money in the world?” They’re like, “I’d like to spend more time with my kids and travel,” or whatever they want to do. In every part of their life, they transition. When they’re young, they might want to save for a new house. If they have a new baby, they might want to save for college. When they grow older, they might want to retire. We’re with them along the whole path. We’re like, “How are you going to do that? Let me help you.”

We do subscription pricing. We have one flat rate. I have two prices, $850 and $1,500. I raise my prices every two years like Amazon does. I say, “Your price is going up. These are all the new things that we’re doing for you.” I thought about that for a long time. QuickBooks goes up in price, and they’re like, “QuickBooks has gone up in price. It’s costing me more money.”

I thought, “Let me flip it around. If I tell them all the new things QuickBooks now offers, they might not use any of it, but it’s there.” It’s like if you look at Amazon when they raise their prices every two years. They’re like, “Here’s what you can now have as a prime member. We ship internationally.” You might not ever use that. People go, “I get this in my subscription.”

It includes pretty much everything they could possibly want. I don’t do audits, so that’s not included. If I were a general doctor or a GP, I wouldn’t do open-heart surgery. If I don’t do it, it’s not included. If they want bill pay, we can add bill pay. If they want receipt management, we can add that. If they add more bank accounts, it’s covered. When the two years come up, the price goes up. We’re like, “Here are all the things we’ve added since the last time we had a price increase.” They go, “Okay.” We’re then like, “What goals have changed for you?” I don’t get much pushback. Nobody likes a price increase, but I say, “You are certainly welcome to go somewhere else.”

That’s why. You’re so detached from the outcome that you’re okay. If someone wants to leave you, it doesn’t faze you. It doesn’t bother you. That’s completely okay. You’re 180 degrees from desperate. People, when you’re desperate, sniff that. When you’re confident and you’re like “This is what I’m doing. This is everything that I’ve been doing for you,” that’s a very different conversation.

I have a lot of people come in that when they first sit down, they’re like, “The girl down the street charges $250.” I say, “You’re welcome to go there.” They’re like, “I like you.” I say, “I charge $1,500 for what you want.” They’re like, “Okay.” They find the money. People say they can’t afford it. I hear that a lot of times from my colleagues. They’re like, “They can’t afford it.” They can. See where they’re spending their money. People find the money they think is important to spend.

How do you explain that from the firm owner’s perspective? I always share with my clients a similar thing. You can’t make a decision for your client based on what you think they can afford because you can see their numbers, but you can also see their numbers and be their guide. You can see all the money that they’re spending that maybe they shouldn’t be spending money on.

I remember I had a girl come in here. She wanted to use my services. She also wanted to pay for her little kid’s kindergarten, which costs $500 a month. We connected her to QBO and downloaded all the transactions. What do I see every day? Starbucks. She spends $10 and then $20. I said, “Michelle, if you had your own pot of coffee, you could pay for everything. You have to decide.”

It’s like, “What’s more important? Do you want someone to manage your books, accounting, and everything else?”

I said, “Also, send Vinny to kindergarten school, or do you want to get coffee every day?” It’s the little things that trip people up. If you ever run into a fraud case, people don’t steal $1 million from a business all at once. They steal $1 at a time. It’s like, “This is where we can start to watch where your expenses are going.”

Another thing I hate is when clients go, “I can’t afford it. What expenses can I cut?” I go, “Let’s turn off your electricity. Let’s stop paying for your insurance. Let’s let all your staff go.” They’re like, “I can’t do that.” I said, “You don’t have an expense problem. You have a pricing problem. Let’s look at your pricing.” He said, “People won’t pay for it.” I said, “They will. Let’s figure out a way.”

He had a restaurant. He did that with me. I said, “You have a great restaurant. Your staff does not leave. The people like it. People like going there. The problem you have is that your cost of goods is too high for the price. I looked at it. It’s 50%. It should be 33%.” He said, “They will complain if I don’t give them the food.” I said, “Get smaller plates. They won’t realize the portions have shrunk down.”

That’s exactly what’s happened everywhere in the country.

I was like, “Get smaller plates,” and he did. All of a sudden, his profits started to go up. He goes, “That was a great idea.” I said, “I’m full of them.”

Facing Your Fears And Being Confident With Your Subscription Model

That’s what they’re paying for in your subscription model. I’d love it if you could share, because I know there are a lot of firm owners who want to move to subscription but don’t know how.

You do it.

I love your attitude because I speak the same way. Maybe you have a different thing for a firm owner. They might have heard it from a bunch of people here I’ve had on the show and other firm owners.

What do they say to you? They’re like, “I can’t because my clients wouldn’t go for it.” I said, “The thing is, it’s scary, and we put our own fear in the way.” A lot of times, I would say, “Write this down. What if you did this? What’s the worst that could happen?”

I like that.

I go, “What if you did it and you lost every single client?” They go, “Oh.” I go, “The good news is, if you lost every single client, you could start over and get better clients.” That’s exciting to me.

Client Experience: If you lose every single client, it is not the end. You can always start over and get better clients.

You see the world very differently from many firm owners. When you have to think about the traditional or typical firm owner, that is scary. That is frightening.

It’s the way they’ve always done it. I remember I had a conversation with a CPA. He moved to QBO. He heard I knew QBO. He goes, “We moved from QBO to desktop.” I said, “What’s the problem?” He’s like, “I can’t put on the invoice the time I track.” I said, “What do you do on the invoice?” He says, “I see how much time I spent, and then I decide what I’m going to charge them.”

It’s a total waste of time.

I said, “Why did you track your time? If you’re going to make up a number anyway because you think that’s what you can charge him, why bother tracking your time?” It was silent on the other end of the phone. That’s how we’ve always done it. We’re like, “Maybe you should think of changing it.”

It comes down to how they operate when they’re doing their sales process with their firms. You get paralyzed by the thought of tracking your time. You get paralyzed by the thought of your upcoming sales call. You freeze up. This guy was tracking time to waste his own time coming up with a price. He will freeze up even to say the price to a client. We’ll probably send a quote or a proposal, and then wonder why they ghosted and disappeared on us. That’s the traditional firm owner mentality.

I have an answer for that, too. If they ghost you, this is what you say to them. You write a one-sentence email to them. “Have you given up on working together?” That’s all you do. You send it. In fact, I taught that at QuickBooks Connect one year. I said to everybody in the audience, “Get out your phones,” and they all got their phones out. I said, “How many of you have clients that you’ve not heard from? They’re on the prospect list, and you’d like to work with them.” They all raised their hands. I said, “You’re going to send them an email, and this is the only thing you’re going to say on it.”

In the subject line only, nothing in the body.

That’s it. It is, “Have you given up on working together?” I said, “Send it,” and they all froze. I go, “What if they say no? They’ve said no already. You don’t know it.”

It’s because they ignored you.

I said, “Send it.” A couple of them did. One sent it right then. She raised her hand and said, “I got a response.” I was like, “What happened? She said, “They said, ‘No, I haven’t.’” They tell you why they haven’t done it or whatever. One guy came up later and said, “I did what you said and signed the contract for $7,000.” I’m like, “Great. It works. If they say no, at least they’re off the list and you can go find someone else.”

Correct. You don’t have to wonder. You have to eliminate wonder. Have you read Chris Voss’ book, Never Split the Difference?

Never Split the Difference: Negotiating As If Your Life Depended On It―Unlock Your Persuasion Potential in Professional and Personal Life

That’s where I learned it.

I love it.

That’s where I learned it, so I’ll give him all the credit.

It’s a book that every person should listen to. You can listen to it on Audible, or you can buy it on Amazon.

It’s called Never Split the Difference.

Correct.

It is scary because you become firm. You become confident in your ability, like, “I’m good at this.” They will buy your confidence.

People buy confidence and certainty.

They’ll ask me questions all the time. I’m like, “I don’t know if I can do that. Let me see if I can’t figure it out.” I had a guy call me, saying, “Can you help me with this report? I got to do this and upload it. What would you charge me to do it?” I said, “I’d probably charge you $2,000. If I can’t do it, you pay me nothing.” That’s a deal.

I said, “Get a Zoom call.” I logged in. He could not figure out Zoom, so he did it on his phone. He was holding the phone up to the computer. I said, “I’m going to have to tell you where to click.” I finally got the report and the data I wanted and said, “Export it to Excel.” It said he did not have an Excel license. I’m like, “What am I going to do?” I said, “Copy the data, and then go to Google Sheets.” He was like, “What’s Google Sheets?” We were setting the whole thing up. We finally set it up, and I got it going. I told him, “Click up there. It says Shar. Put my name in there. Now, I have it. Let me play with it.”

I got the data fixed. It did what he wanted, and then I sent it to him. I go, “Did it work?” He said, “It uploaded like a charm. Now I have to do 23 and 24.” I said, “Great. Send me the QBD backup file with the admin password so I don’t have to do this other shenanigan stuff. I’ll send you a secure link to send it to me.” He goes, “This was great.” I go, “Where do I send the invoice?” He goes, “Send it here.” I had a guarantee that if I couldn’t do it, he wouldn’t pay. He had nothing to lose. I do that kind of stuff. I’ve made mistakes. I’ve been underpriced, goofed up, or whatever. I put that into my education.

That’s part of your investment in your education.

That’s where I learned, “I’m not going to do that again.” It’s like asking some friends, “How are you?” and they tell you, and you’re like, “I’m never going to ask her that question again.”

Creating A Disney-Like Client Experience

That’s funny. I want to go back into the client experience because that’s one of the things where you’ve created an amazing experience. We’ll be talking more about this Disney stuff, so other firm owners can grasp the uniqueness of what if they treated their firm like Disney and went into the full client experience. Maybe you can give us your first three things you would tell a colleague if they were to change your client experience. The fact that you’re doing $1 million in revenue with 2 and a half people is amazing. A firm owner tuning in is probably like, “There’s no way. That sounds too good to be true. She’s lying,” and all these things.

I was at Grocon and I said that, and they all looked at me. I went back to the room that night and broke it down. I broke down how many 1040s, 1120s, and cast clients we have, the cleanups we did, and the average price of each to get to the numbers. I said, “Here are the numbers.” I don’t do it for the money. The money follows. I don’t worry about the revenue. I remember when we hit the $1 million the first time. Hal walks in. He does the tax. He goes, “Do you know how much we sold last year?” I go, “No.” He goes, “We did over $1 million.” I go, “Wow.” I don’t do it for the money. The money follows when you do what you love.

Doing what you love and creating a client experience is what has people paying you what they pay. That’s step one of having a good sales process, which is having the client experience. What would you say is the thing that you implemented right out of the gate about the client experience to create this Disney-like scenario?

The big thing I do is I’m always happy. I’m always happy when a client calls. I always pick up the phone with a smile on my face.

That’s very Disney.

Who wants to talk to a puss face? I had a client call one time. Stuff was coming at me all the wrong time, and I was a little short with her on the phone. I hung up the phone and said, “I was short with her.” I called her back and said, “Tori, I have to apologize. I shouldn’t have picked up the phone when you called because there were too many things coming at me. I apologize for being short with you. Could we start over? I’m sorry. There are too many things.” She goes, “Thanks.” Who does that?

I would apologize to my kids if I thought, “I was a little too mean.” I say, “I shouldn’t have done that, Peter. I apologize.” They see that you’re real and stuff. It doesn’t happen often, but if you do do that, apologize. You could be like, “I was a little short in the email. I didn’t mean that. I came across as harsh.” That’s important. Every time they call, I always try to have a happy face, like, “Thanks for calling. What’s up? What’s new with you?”

I love that.

They’ll tell you. These are people. Everybody says, “You’re business-to-business.” No, these are people-to-people.

You’re in the people business.

Find out about them. I had a client. They were in Italy for a couple of weeks. I said, “Pictures,” and they sent me pictures. I have another client. She had a new grandson. I said, “Pictures.” I’m not a big baby person, but she sends me pictures. I goo-goo and gaga her. I’m like, “He’s so cute,” and that kind of stuff. I ask, “How’s that new grandchild doing?” Talk to them as human beings.

I send them birthday cards. Who does that? I send them an anniversary card for when they became a client. I say, “It’s your fifth anniversary with us. I can’t thank you enough for your business. I can’t wait to see where we go in the future,” and that kind of stuff. It’s like, “Wow.” It’s silly stuff. Think of what you would like instead of being so “professional.”

I keep in touch with them. I try to flip things on their head. At the end of the year, when they have to pay tax, they go, “I don’t want to pay any tax.” I say, “There’s a way you can get around that.” They say. “What’s the secret?” I say, “We’re going to look at your profit near the end of December. Whatever that is, I will create an invoice for that exact amount. You can pay me your profit, and then you’ll have no tax.”

They go, “What?” I say, “You wanted to pay no tax, so we’re going to have to add your expenses. This is a great way because I’ll pay the tax. I’m okay with paying the tax.” They go, “I’ll have no cash.” I say, “You said you didn’t want to pay any tax. Tax is only a portion of the cash. What we need to do is to better handle where we are during the year and get more tax planning so we can minimize your tax.” They say, “All right.” In fact, when they sit down with me the first time, I go, “If you’re here to save money on taxes, we’re the wrong firm for you.”

That sounds like that’s part of your client experience. How does that tie into when you’re thinking about Disney? The first thing is you answer the phone with a smile. That’s important because many firm owners are skipping that part.

How many times do you like it when you get picked up and it’s, “Please press 1 for this and 2 for that.” My daughter’s 41. When I found out I was going to have her, I knew nothing about babies. I never played with dolls. I thought, “I’m going to have a baby. I don’t know what to do.” I called around to different obstetricians and picked the one who was the nicest on the phone.

I thought, “I picked the doctor because of the receptionist. It was not because the doctor was any good, but because the person who answered the phone was the nicest to me.” She didn’t think that I was stupid or silly for getting freaked out. She goes, “That’s all right.” Whatever she said, I don’t know, but I picked them and thought, “That’s what I want.”

I feel that when they pick up the phone to call an accountant, it is a scary process because they’re asking for help. They’ve been told, “This is easy. Accounting is easy. Anybody can do it. You should be able to do this.” They think it’s all writing checks. They finally get a mess, and they call up. They never call when the books are in good order. I realized that. I say, “Thanks for calling. Why’d you pick it up? Why did you call me today?” They answer with whatever the reason. I say, “You have come to the right place.”

They say, “How much do you charge?” That’s always the next question they ask. I say, “Let me ask you a question. May I ask you a question?” They’re like, “Yes.” I say, “Are you picking an accountant solely based on price? If you are, I’m the most expensive person you’re going to talk to today, but I’m also the best. You have to decide if you want the best or if you want cheap,” and I get quiet.

They answer, “I want the best.” I’d be like, “That’s me. Let’s talk.” They ask, “What do you charge?” I say, “Let’s find out what you want. I might not even be able to help you.’ They then start taking it away. I say, “Come over and have a chat. Let’s see if I can help you or not. The worst thing that can happen is that I’ve made a new friend. I can always use friends.”

You can always get a referral. You never know.

I come over and make that happen. I let them talk. A lot of people are like, “I limit my talks to a half-hour meeting.” If they want to talk to me for two hours, I’ll let them. You’re building the relationship in the beginning. They’re getting to know who you are. I sit there and let them talk. I let them tell me everything that’s going on. I’m like, “Tell me about your family. Why did you start your business? What is it about mowing lawns that got you excited?”

They’re like, “I like mowing lawns.” I said, “Do you ever think about it? You don’t just mow lawns. You make people’s homes beautiful. You make people feel good. When they come home at the end of the day, they walk in and are like, ‘My lawn looks great.’ You relax them.” They’re like, “I never thought about it like that.” I talk like that to them. By the time you get to the end, they don’t care what you charge. They want to sign up.

It’s because you let them feel heard, understood, listened to, and all those things.

I did learn from Mary Kay that they do not care how much you know. They do care how much you care.

I preach that every day. I love that. They do care about how much you care.

That’s right. They’ll pick that up. They’ll see if you’re real or sincere. The thing is, everybody is like, “I want to be like you, Debbie.” No. You have to be the best you. You’re a second-class me, but be the best you. Find what makes you tick. What would you like? I always put myself in the position of a customer. What do I want as a customer? I want to be heard. I want to be made to feel important. Everybody has that sign. They’re like, “Make me feel important. I don’t want to feel stupid.” A lot of times, they feel stupid because we talk in accounting terms.

I call it techie jargon or accountanese. You need to remove it and pretend you’re talking to your kid at Disneyland. Ride, fun, money, candy, piggy bank

All that stuff. When Hal talks to them, he talks in accounting talk. I sit there sometimes and watch their eyes glaze over. They won’t say anything. I say, “Did you understand one thing he said? I didn’t.” They go, “I didn’t.” I say, “This is what he meant.” I say, “You have to explain it like they’re people. They don’t know what you know,” but they see that he’s brilliant at it.

I talk to them like people. That’s the secret. I do that. I talk to them like that throughout our whole relationship. I’m like, “I’m glad you called. What’s going on?” If I see something wackadoo in the financials, I go, “Did you mean to do this? What is this for? I see something happening here. I look at trends a lot. I see sales are going up. We might need to get more people. Have you thought about that? You have a lot of turnover. Let’s discuss how you’re treating your employees because that’s a big expense.” I hear all the time that people don’t want to work anymore. I don’t believe that. I think that management treats people poorly.

That makes them not want to work anymore.

Client Experience: People do not want to work anymore because most managements treat their employees poorly.

I don’t think it’s management because I have a lot of restaurants that do not have any turnover. There are other restaurants in the town where the staff walk out. I go, “It’s not the staff. It’s leadership. Let’s talk about that.” You celebrate their wins and cry with their losses. I had a client call up. He has been with me for a long time. He goes, “I’ve decided to bring in an in-house accountant, so I probably won’t need you anymore.” I said, “Eric, you have to decide what’s best for your business. I still love you.” He said, “You make it so easy.” I said, “You’ll be back, Eric. This is the fourth time you’ve done this for me.” He said, “I know.” I said, “I’m with you wherever you need.” I don’t burn bridges.

I always say, “My goal is to have you outgrow me. You have your own huge accounting department that you can employ in-house. The goal is to make you as big as you want to be.” I also say. “Bigger is not always better.” A lot of times, people will say, “You only have two and a half people.” I go, “I don’t want more staff. I like having two and a half people.” I had more staff at one time, and then I found I was doing more staff work than accounting work. I liked the work. I thought, “What do I need more people for? What would I do with $2 million? I can’t spend it now.”

Less to manage.

I didn’t need it. We always stay at this level. I’m doing a whole lot of new things. I have my own YouTube channel called Bookkeepers on Fire with my friend Donna Reade. We have fun doing that. We went to the Scaling New Heights Conference, and I got all excited about this new product called Puzzle, which is AI-based. I thought, “This is the new frontier. I see such possibilities.” I thought, “Now I can go and start to talk about AI, because nobody knows what it is. Nobody knows what’s going on. I can start to get these people in the beginning.”

The younger people get the AI stuff. They want the automatic thing. I thought, “I’m going to go out and start to go to Rotary Clubs and the Chamber of Commerce. I’ll start talking about AI and where accounting is going.” I’ll be like, “You can be an early adopter and get it on this Puzzle stuff. Have it all done electronically so you can get the insights into your business. Two weeks before you have to go see your tax guy, you do not have to add up all your receipts. That’s no fun. See what happens with that.” It’s where the whole world is going. I’m very excited about that. I see such possibilities. I love doing this job. Accounting makes a difference in people’s lives. When they feel comfortable with where their finances are, they can relax. They could be Walt and build their own amusement park, however they want to do it.

Make A Real Difference In People’s Lives As An Accountant

That is the takeaway from this episode. How can you, as the firm owner, go build your own Disney Park within your firm? How can your client be Walt?

You be Roy.

How can you execute, always answer the phone with a smile on your face, and exude the confidence that you’ve gotten? Listen to Never Split the Difference on repeat or read it and make these changes. You can also have a firm doing the same amount of revenue with two and a half people or less, especially with AI around the corner. You can utilize it and implement things. You can do more work with less time and figure it out. You have to figure out what’s for you. Thank you so much.

That’s the scary part. You’re welcome. This was a real joy. I love talking about this and always hope to inspire other accountants to think bigger. You can make a difference in people’s lives through accounting.

You have been an inspiration. You’re not a spring chicken, are you?

No, I turned 69.

If you’re 69, your daughter’s 41.

My son is 38. I have a new grandchild who’s going to be seven months old.

Go hang out with them. Enjoy your life and keep rocking.

We have a condo in Marco Wand. We’re going down there for the 4th Holiday. We have another condo in New Smyrna Beach. We can work anywhere with this remote stuff. It’s fun. This is a great job.

You’ve been an inspiration for many. I honor you and thank you for taking the time to be here with us.

You’re quite welcome.

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Episode Wrap-Up And Closing Words

Thank you all so much for joining Debra and me on another amazing episode of the show. That was fun. If you need to get the book that we were discussing, it’s Never Split the Difference with Chris Voss. He’s the author. Also, I recommend you think about how you want to create your firm to be the Disney version. Her energy is why her revenue is shining. She picks up the phone with a smile. She runs the sales of her firm. Her husband has nothing to do with it. They’ve split that task completely.

What if you could work with dream clients? Ones like hers that respect her time and pay what she’s worth. They don’t ghost her. They don’t miss paperwork or payments. What if that could become your reality this month? What if that could become the reality right now? What if you could multiply your revenue, trim your work week down to four days, and spend more time on the weekends with your family or grandkids instead of being stuck working 16 or 18-hour days?

This is not a fantasy like Disney. It is a framework. I’ve taught hundreds of firm owners like you how to do it. If you’re ready for a firm that feels fun, profitable, and in alignment with the life that you want, then let’s talk. Head on over to TheAbundantCall.com. Book your complimentary strategy session with me and my team, and let’s design the Disney firm that works for you, not the other way around. Once again, TheAbundantCall.com. Thank you so much for tuning in. We’ll see you in the next episode.

Important Links

• Debra Kilsheimer on LinkedIn
• Bookkeepers on Fire
• Bookkeepers on Fire on YouTube
• Never Split the Difference
• Book a Call to Grow Your Firm Revenue – The Abundant Accountant

About Debra Kilsheimer

Debra Kilsheimer is a CPA and partner in Behind the Scenes Financials, Inc., where she runs the show year-round while her husband Hal handles tax season.

She’s a QuickBooks wizard, a national speaker, and a Top 100 ProAdvisor who believes accounting firms should ditch the stuffy rules.

After passing the CPA exam in 1981 and briefly loathing accounting, she rebuilt the profession on her own terms—tech-savvy, client-focused, and fun. Debra is a violin-playing, yarn-chasing grandmother who still teaches QuickBooks like a rockstar. And yes—she met her husband on the Internet before it was cool.