Episode 171 | How Self-Belief Impacts Sales With Rob Jolles

If you want others to believe in what you are saying or offering, you have to believe in yourself first. Bestselling author and keynote speaker Rob Jolles joins Michelle Weinstein to discuss how self-belief is the key ingredient in building trust, leveling up your sales, and achieving business growth. Rob explains how to put yourself in character to unlock your desired success, control (or even silence) your self-critic, and address imposter syndrome. He also talks about the importance of refining your communication skills, embracing hope despite the fear of disappointment, and asking strategic questions that truly matter.

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Episode 171 | How Self-Belief Impacts Sales With Rob Jolles

We have a very special guest. Our special guest is a professional speaker, a five-time bestselling author, and has spent over 35 years teaching, entertaining, and inspiring audiences worldwide. His career has taken him over 2.5 million miles in the air. He spoke and taught sales with Toyota, Disney, NASA, Lilly, and many other financial institutions. His books have also been featured in USA Today, Harvard Business Review, and Publishers Weekly, and have been translated into over a dozen languages.

Before we welcome our very special guest to the show, if you are an accounting, tax, bookkeeping, or fractional CFO firm owner and you feel stuck at about $50,000 to $100,000 revenue, and you wonder how the heck you can grow your firm without sacrificing more time, energy, or sanity, I want you to know you’re not alone, and it’s not your fault. You were taught how to do great technical accounting, tax, or bookkeeping work, but not how to confidently sell it.

Here at The Abundant Accountant, I show you not only how to double your firm’s revenue and how to get paid upfront, but how to finally stop trading time for dollars so that every single sales call you make, you do it without freezing up and without being pushy. If you would like to find out what’s blocking your firm’s growth and how to fix it, head on over to TheAbundantCall.com and book your free strategy session with me and my team. Let’s welcome our special guest, Rob Jolles, to the show.

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Welcome, Rob, to the show.

It’s a pleasure. It’s good to be back.

Bestselling Author And Keynote Speaker Rob Jolles

I’m so happy to have you back here on the show. I’m very excited for our conversation because a lot of new business owners are going to resonate with what we’re talking about, as well as new firm owners that want to maybe transition from a job into starting their own business, but then there are some things that maybe they haven’t thought of yet. Before we dive in, I’d love it if you could share who you are and what you do. I did your bio, but I always think it’s better if it comes from you.

I do a lot of things, but I’m mainly meat and potatoes. I’ve been delivering seminars, workshops, and writing books for 40 years. I got about three million miles in the air. The first half of my career was spent working in classic sales situations. I worked in lots of financial institutions, like wire houses, brokerage firms, banks, and insurance companies. You name it. I always dreamt of, “Wouldn’t it be great if we talked to everyone else that’s selling that’s afraid to even use the word?”

I wrote some books that took the dollar signs off the cover and started working with NASA, police officers, hostage negotiators, and polygraph examiners. I started working with an eclectic group of people who also need to persuade, like doctors, nurses, and things like that. That’s what I do. I’m a live auctioneer for charities. I have a show like you. I’ve got little side hustles. I think I was born with a microphone around my neck. That’s who I am.

Boosting Sales By Telling The Truth

I love that. You are such a great speaker and guest. I would love to have you at an auction if I ever had an auction again in my life, because you would be a lot of fun. Let’s dive into the sales stuff. There are a lot of people who avoid the word 100%. You were working with doctors, nurses, and other people, and you said clearly that you had to show them how to persuade others.

If you were to break down the word sales for those firm owners that are tuning in who are terrified of that word or think, “I have great services, so I shouldn’t have to sell anything,” what would you say that maybe resonated with the doctors, nurses, and those that never thought they were in a sales role, but were with patients every single day?

What I’d say to them is it’s almost a moral responsibility to stop fearing the word selling. We can use other words like persuasion and influence, but how about we look at it this way? How many people, particularly in the medical industry, do we come in contact with who fear change or are doing things that are improper?

Even for accountants, maybe they’re like, “I’m running my books my way. Knock on wood. I’ve never been caught.” It’s like, “I’ll wait until you do.” In medical situations, it’s like, “You’re doing some unhealthy things, but blood pressure is good, and you’re looking pretty good for now. We’ll wait until you aren’t.” When I say it’s a moral responsibility, helping a friend past their fear of change and getting them to commit to change is something that we all need to do, particularly in a medical situation or a financial situation.

As I’m coming to the tail end of my career, I look back and think about how many conversations I had with people who were smart and said, “You might want to set up your corporation this way. You might want to start your stuff that way and other things,” and I said, “I’m 32, I’ll get to it.” That’s when we have to roll up our sleeves and say, “I need to have a different kind of conversation today.”

That’s what we’re going to talk about, too. There are some elements that, before we can have that conversation, there’s a lot of fear about, “How do I get someone to believe in me?” I was talking to a friend of mine, Lea, a brand-new business owner and psychologist. She is working to help families that are dealing with children with trauma, tantrums, and all this craziness.

I believe that she’s going to have a very difficult time enrolling people into her coaching program because the number one thing is that she doesn’t have any belief in herself. She doesn’t think people believe her. I feel like that’s the foundation of anything if you’re going to go into entrepreneurship or run your own firm. I’d love it if we could start with that. How does a firm owner start to get past the fear of, “Why don’t people believe me?”

Even when I wrote the book, Why People Don’t Believe You, I wanted to immediately get to, “Here’s how we get people to believe us. Step one. Step two,” but what I realized was if we don’t believe in ourselves, how in the world can we get others to believe in us? The question is a good one, and it does begin with ourselves. There are a couple of thoughts I have here.

Why People Don’t Believe You…: Building Credibility from the Inside Out

First of all, it sounds very simple, but the first thing we have to remember is that we have to tell the truth. It’s the easiest way to be believed if you believe it yourself. Sometimes, particularly in sales situations, we are put in situations where it’s like, “I’m hoping I have the best product here. I’m hoping I have a good solution here.” We have a crisis there.

I don’t know if we ever talked about this before, but within 2 weeks coming out of the University of Maryland, at 21 years old, I was selling life, health, and disability insurance. I was good at it. I was number 11 in the nation out of 7,800 agents. I was on magazine covers. They nicknamed me The Rocket. I went around the country. It was the first time I ever got to talk to groups and million-dollar round tables. Doesn’t it sound wonderful? Yet, the problem that I was dealing with was that I didn’t believe in my solution.

I believe in life insurance. Don’t get me wrong, but I was selling a lot of life insurance to 21-year-olds. That’s what 21-year-olds tend to do. I got good at it, but I didn’t believe in the product that I was selling. I had a crisis that I went through. That’s one of the reasons why I lasted 2 years, 2 months, about 3 days, and an hour and a half as a life insurance salesman. It had nothing to do with whether I could sell the product. It had to do with believing in the product.

Our product is us. We have to believe in ourselves. That means we have to tell the truth. It sounds trite. If I could go back and tap myself on the shoulder, I’d say,” Why don’t we leave the 21-year-olds alone and get into some deeper water here?” Sometimes, it’s a crisis that we deal with internally, like, “I don’t feel comfortable in situations like this.” I’ll keep going, but I don’t want to filibuster. I think that’s one of the first hurdles. It’s the truth.

Addressing Imposter Syndrome And Balancing Feedback

What would you say to Lea or even a firm owner here, tuning in, where they believe that they can help and make a change? They believe they’ve got this moral responsibility to help this person in front of them, like a doctor or a nurse would. Maybe they’re a firm owner, and they’re helping people like you who want to do their books their way, but do it the right way.

Maybe they have a cleanup project or something like that, where they believe in the product that they sell, which is a service for everyone here. It’s an actual service product. They’re still battling these internal demons in their heads. They know they’re good at their work, but people didn’t buy. People didn’t engage their firm. People ghosted them. People said they were too expensive, or whatever the past history has been. What would you say to a firm owner like that when the product is us? How do you get past those things?

We’re dancing around a couple of terms. Let’s bring one out on the table, which is the classic imposter syndrome. We’re dancing on it. One of the first things we have to remind ourselves is that everybody, to some level or another, suffers from imposter syndrome. It doesn’t just pick on the lame and the lazy. It picks on us all. We have to control those negative voices. I mean that when I say it.

I don’t speak negatively to myself, but you’ll be shocked if you say, “Tomorrow, all I’m going to do is listen. I’m going to write down every little snipe that I throw at myself. Stupid, where are the car keys? If you had half a brain, you’d know how to get out of this driveway.” We can hammer ourselves with these negative voices. They disguise themselves by making you believe that we’re just teasing. It’s like, “We’re playing and teasing.”

These voices are not okay. They will fool you. If you keep telling yourself that you’re not smart or that you’re not good at this, that, or the other, whether you think it’s a joke or not, those voices begin to get louder and stronger. One, I am not a fan, nor will I put up with allowing myself to start slinging negative thoughts my way. It’s not okay. One is, I’m watching those negative voices, even the “funny ones.”

I’m going to throw two more at you. The second one is, balance your feedback. Be nice. I wish people were nicer to themselves. I know some nice people who are nice to their children, their friends, their significant others, and their clients, but when it comes to themselves, they’re monsters. Why can’t we care about ourselves a little bit more?

When we’re working with somebody we care about, we wouldn’t dare give them feedback that is out of balance and is completely dominated by negative criticism. We balance it out because we’re smart. We know that if we give this friend of ours too many things to work on, they’ll fix nothing, so we tend to be intelligent and say, “We’ll pick maybe two.” We’ll bounce it out with two positive things. A lot of times, if we’re trying to help another individual, we’re not always aware of the things we’re doing. To become more aware and present about that is helpful. We’ll live to fight another day for all the other things that we think we’re going to crowbar in.

All I’m asking is, if that makes sense to the way you talk to everyone else you care about in your life, why in the world can’t we have that conversation with ourselves? Why can’t we balance our feedback? Why can’t we limit our feedback? Why can’t we go at 1 or 2 and design an approach to correcting or attempting to correct it?

One, I’m trying to control the negative voices and not buy the fact that I’m playing around. It’s not playing around. Two, I am balancing that feedback. You gave me special permission to crowbar a third one in. I was watching a golf tournament. I always smile when I’m watching golf. I’m not a very good golfer. I don’t play all that often, but when I do play, I don’t worry about the other person that I’m playing with and what their ball is doing.

I watch these pros play. I don’t know if you know this. They’ll play for four days. They won’t look at a scoreboard until maybe 2 or 3 holes to go. They’re playing 72 holes over 4 days. They’ll look with 2 or 3 holes to go. Why? It sounds crazy. I coach basketball. Why am I not looking at the scoreboard? It’s because golf is a little different.

In golf, what everyone else is doing has a small effect on your ball. It distracts you from what you’re trying to do. Watching you swing, putt, and do these things only distracts me. I’m going to play the course. I’m not going to play my opponent. I’m going to worry about the things that I can control. The game is so much more fun that way.

That’s the way I try to play it in business. There are so many things that we worry about. We’re like, “There’s probably another company here. There are probably decision-influencers.” There may be. You have to control what you can control. If you focus on your ball, you’ll get the best swing you can possibly put on that ball. Focusing on ourselves and on what we can control, balancing our feedback to ourselves, and maybe controlling those negative voices are the first three prescriptions I’m giving your friend.

I said it to her in a very similar way. I’ve shared this with many clients in the past. It has nothing to do with what the firm owner down the street is doing, or another business owner, or whatever group. That is one of the most important things. With how I’ve grown and how I keep moving forward, I don’t care about anyone else. I don’t look at their numbers. I don’t ask for numbers. I focus on what I can do better and how I play my own course. You don’t have the other opponent. The only opponent is yourself.

I love this golf analogy. If everyone quit looking at the scoreboard or quit looking at, “They’re doing this podcast,” or, “They got this many followers on Instagram,” or, “I don’t have any social media,” or whatever the thing is that you are looking at in other firm owners or other business owners, that is the distraction from what you need to be doing, which is playing your own course.

I love it. I had no idea that’s how golf went. I had no idea that they’re playing 3 or 4 days, and most of them don’t leave and look at the scoreboard until there are 2 or 3 holes left. I agree with them. I would not want to know either. It’s only going to distract and derail you from focusing on what’s the most important thing to move you forward. It’s about you winning that tournament or game. It has nothing to do with the other ten players.

That’s exactly right. When you’ve played your round that way, even if you don’t win, you’ve played the best round you could play. We’re talking about why people don’t believe you. I wish people would stop beating themselves up so much when things don’t go their way. I’ll beat myself up a little bit when I’ve been lazy, when I procrastinate, when I put things off, when I don’t give my best, or when I should have done something that I didn’t do. That warrants me to look in the mirror and go, “What went on there?”

I coached a lot of basketball. I got out of the habit of breaking a huddle and saying, “Win.” I never broke a huddle that way after my first season. I coached almost 50 teams. We would break with, “Execute.” We would break with different things that we could control. All I know is if we execute, practice hard, do the things that we know that we’re capable of doing, and do them to the best of our ability, no matter what the score says, we walk away with our heads high. There are some interesting sports analogies that work their way into our own belief system.

Self-Belief: If we practice hard, do the things we are capable of, and do them to the best of our ability, we walk away with our heads high.

Playing As Your Best Character

It’s fascinating. This golf one has me fascinated because that’s the motto I’ve lived by. I operate that way in a lot of things. I did a showcase with a bunch of other ladies from the gym. I keep to myself. I don’t ask questions. I don’t focus on any other people. It’s like, “What did I do today to get me closer to what I wanted to achieve?” I love that. Is there anything else for believing in yourself?

Yeah. I’ll give you one more because I think it’s important. I’ve been in my guard, going, “I’ll do all that,” but I’ve been struggling. To block it all out sometimes isn’t enough. I’m going to dip into a little bit of acting. When I was young, I used to hear the term ‘Fake it until you make it.’ I understood part of it, but I was somewhat annoyed by it. I don’t like the words ‘fake it.’

I learned this as an actor. As an actor, you learn to get into character. I was directed by some good directors in the state of Maryland. One of them in particular, I remember, was amazing. He wanted us to understand our character. This guy’s name is Robert. I was walking down the hallways. I was in school. It was one of the first plays I was in. I was playing Benny Van Buren from Damn Yankees, an old man. I was five-foot-nothing. He would walk by me and go, “What does Benny eat for breakfast?” I rolled my eyes and went, “What in the world is he talking about?”

He’d walk by me the next day and ask, “What kind of car does he drive?” He’d walk by me the next day and ask, “What kind of house does he live in?” He’d walk by me the next day and ask, “What type of cereal he was eating?” Finally, I looked at him and went, “What kind of cereal is he eating? He eats cornflakes because he doesn’t like any Mickey Mouse cereals in front of him.” He smiled and said, “Now you’re getting it.” He got me to believe in this character. Learning the lines was the easy part. Understanding the character that I was playing was the hard part.

When we struggle with our own beliefs, sometimes, we have to get up. Maybe we’ve been kicked around. Maybe we’ve lost a couple of deals or lost some clients. It’s not our best week, or maybe not our best month or year. You can imagine how our character, in a sense, is damaged. We’re playing the role of a wounded accountant. We’re playing the role of a wounded person in business. I look at people and go, “No wonder the tune isn’t lining up right now.”

Who’s to say that we can’t go back and think about a time, maybe last year or last month, where every time we picked up the phone, everybody wanted to do business with us? Every client who came in seemed so happy with what we were doing. When we can see that, feel that, and almost touch it in our minds, that’s my Benny Van Buren. We then start understanding who we’re supposed to be. Sometimes, the tune begins to line up. Maybe we are a little bit shaken in business, but we’re playing the role of a very successful accountant.

I may have said it on your show. This is one of my favorite quotes. Carol Burnett said not that long ago, “The body doesn’t know when the mind is acting.” What happens is, when we put ourselves in positions mentally where we see ourselves a little bit more successfully, and we can find it from the past, the body comes along for the ride. It’s like, “Okay.” The nerves begin to go down. The voice begins to get stronger.

I like talking to you, so I tend to filibuster. I got to give you one more fast story. I experimented with this a couple of times with groups of people who were unemployed. I had rooms of people who were unemployed for at least two years. Imagine the tune that they were singing, in a sense. It was a defeated and beaten tune.

I had them answer a couple of questions about, “Tell me about yourself. Tell me about what you’re looking for.” What they didn’t know was that I was measuring the decibels or the sound levels of the room. I went over what we were talking about, and I said, “I want you to close your eyes. I want you to find that character and find that time. Can you see it? Can you feel it? Remember when everybody wanted a piece of you. You got it? Okay.”

I said, “We’re going back into the roleplay. I want you to answer the same questions.” I’m measuring the decibels, and the room doubled in sound. It got louder. It got more animated. People were finding their rhythm a little bit. To that friend of yours, I would say add character to it. Find that role that they want to play and begin to develop a character for that role. It’s important.

For every firm owner, it’s the same thing. They have to find that role when they pass the EA or CPA exam. It might not be that you have any clients yet, or you’re in a down slump from people ghosting you. Maybe you keep sending proposals and quotes and get ghosted, and then wonder why you have a large amount of AR. Even with all of those things, you can go back to a successful moment where you are going to play the role of that successful accountant from that moment.

The fear of failure sneaks into our subconscious and undermines our desire to try. We have to be diligent and fight it. Have you ever seen the movie A Beautiful Mind?

I don’t remember.

It’s with Russell Crowe. It’s a story about a professor who was schizophrenic. It was a serious issue. He would see people. It was very difficult. He won a Nobel Peace Prize. He was brilliant, but tortured. Finally, he got on the other side of it. There’s a wonderful scene near the end where he is being approached by somebody. They’re going to give him this amazing award. In the movie, you see these characters walking beside him. He sees them. Nobody else does.

The individual right at the end says, “Do you still suffer from this issue?” These characters are sitting right next to him, and they’re paying no attention to them. He said, “Yes. They’ll always be there, but do you know what? I’ve given up on them, and they’ve given up on me at this point. I connected that with that’s where we get some of this when we’re shaking and we don’t believe in ourselves. It’s always there. It’s always going to be walking beside you. You lose interest in it, and it loses interest in you, but it’s never gone.

How Self-Belief Can Invite Others To Believe In You

I have a question. Part of sales and getting to the root cause of things, and where a lot of firm owners and entrepreneurs struggle is believing in ourselves. What about getting others to believe in us? I truly believe that sales is about enrolling, persuading, or having the other person know, “I believe in myself. This is why you should, too.” It’s getting others to believe in us. What would you share with a firm owner who not only struggles with themselves, but how they get others to believe in them?

I want to be careful here. I want anybody who’s reading to sit down. I don’t want you to fall down.

Take notes.

Grab a bar next to you or something. Make sure you steady yourself. I’m going to start off with one of the culprits and one of the things that I need to get off my chest. We are so obsessed with being the smartest person in the room. We are so obsessed with thinking that knowledge will carry the day. I’m not telling you that we can’t be smart. We got continuing education. You worked hard for that degree, and I’m proud of you.

I’m answering your question, and I’m going to tell you that I think knowledge is a wee bit overrated. When it’s time, believe me, your clients will love to hear how smart you are. The problem is, a lot of times, we want to lead with knowledge. We want to lead by showing people how smart we are. One of the first things to answer your question succinctly is that we have to stop talking. We have to be quiet. We have to ask questions, and we have to listen. If I were reading this episode, there might be some people rolling their eyes and going, “Not this one again, asking questions or listening.”

Self-Belief: The fear of failure sneaks into our subconscious. It undermines our desire to try. We have to be diligent and find it.

We talk about that all the time, so this is right in alignment with everything I say. I always talk to the firm owners and those who have gotten to know me for years about how it doesn’t matter how many letters you have after your name. None of that matters. You think people want to know the technical knowledge, the accountanese, the technical jargon, your degrees, and all that, but none of that matters. What matters is that people feel heard and understood. You said to stop talking and listen more. Being able to communicate in a way that they feel heard and understood is the thing that will have people believe in you.

The more other people talk in a conversation, typically, the more they believe and like the person they’re communicating with. I’m hoping this person isn’t reading this episode, but we went to breakfast. I was smiling because we met another couple. We were meeting this person’s friend. She was very animated. She liked talking. I tend to like talking, too, but not that time.

Would you believe that I finished my entire meal, and she had not taken a bite? She couldn’t. She was talking. I’ve got to tell you that she was a very interesting person and, at the same time, interesting for a period of time. It is something that even I, the guy who writes books on this, have to be very careful of. Maybe I’m anxious, and I want to impress people. I don’t know what it is.

My last name is Jolles. We are families of carpenters and bricklayers. Jolleses are talkers. That’s my tribe, but I have to be very careful because it’s weird. It’s instinct versus logic. The instinct is, “If I’m fascinating and tell you all about everything, you’ll like me more.” Logic states the complete opposite. It’s one of those things where I almost think you can’t hear this enough.

When I do seminars on the road, I don’t go into asking questions and listening. I tell people, “Grab a tape recorder. Grab your smartphone.” It’s typically smartphones. I’m like, “Let’s record you persuading somebody to do something. Sell something.” Nobody’s asking questions. When they do, they’re more like an interrogation than a conversation. It’s all closed probes and yes or no responses. They’re like, “I’ll get better than this in a minute. We’ll build off of this.” If we don’t ask questions and listen, why even continue the conversation that we’re having? It all starts here. This is the foundation.

I couldn’t agree more. With a firm owner who is having a hard time having other people believe in them, and they have a hard time believing in themselves, and they are not asking open-ended, strategic, good questions, not listening, and talking over people, what are some steps that you could pull from the book to tell a firm owner to start practicing right away? Number one, record your conversations, listen back, and see how well you did. That’s what I heard.

The Three Ps Of Clear Communication

Every now and then, we authors will fall in love with one of our quotes. I’ll tell you a quote I like of mine. Don’t think less of me for being so impressed with myself. It’s a quote that sometimes gets buried in a book, but we know how much that means to us. The quote is, “It’s often not the words, but the space between the words that makes us believable.”

What I’m talking about, to answer your question, is the actual pauses that we use, where we slow ourselves down, where we speed ourselves up, or where we change our inflection a little bit. I refer to these as the three Ps, which are Pitch, Pace, and Pause. It’s like music. When we hear somebody who can’t carry a tune, sometimes, we refer to them as tone deaf. I wish there were a better word for it. I’m sure there is. They can’t hear it. You hit a note, and they can’t hear it. Some people can’t hear the sounds they’re making. They’re almost tone deaf that way.

A lot of times, what I’m working with people is they’ve got the right things to say and they know what they want to say, but nobody believes them because it sounds like they wrote down something that they wanted to say. Elevator pitches. People are famous for this. Star stories and things like this. We have to learn where to change our inflection. We almost mark it up musically. As weird as this sounds, when we’re in character, you’d be surprised at how the Pitch, the Pace, and the Pauses seem to come out more naturally.

They happen organically.

That’s because we’re in character. I’m playing the role of an insurance salesman, so I might be a little bit more dominant in nature. I don’t know that character anymore. It has been a while since I’ve sold for New York Life.

That one got put to rest.

Do you want to know something funny? Imagine this. I wanted to sell life insurance. I wanted to sell because I love selling, and I wanted to make the most money I could. It seemed like the life insurance industry was the way to go. This is 1980. New York Life said, “All you’ve got to do is pass a personality exam.” I said, “Okay.” They said, “You’re going to go down, and you’re going to do this. You’re going to go to this place, and you’re going to take this test.”

As I’m walking out of the Washington Watergate office, which is where this office was, I turned and said to this manager, “One last question. When I take the test, who am I? Am I Rob Jolles, or am I an insurance salesman?” I already learned how to get in character. He said, “I don’t have any idea what you’re talking about.” He was completely annoyed with me. He said, “Take the test, Jolles,” and so I went and took it like Rob Jolles.

I got one of the worst scores they’d ever seen. I went to the office, and they said, “We can’t hire you. You’re not our kind of guy.” I said, “He told me to take it like me.” He said, “That’s it. I can’t help you.” I said, “Let me take it again. I’ll take it as an insurance salesman.” He said, “You can’t fool these tests.” I said, “I’ll pay for the test.”

They let me take it again, and I had the highest score ever registered in the Washington General office. We had 75 active agents at the time. It was the highest ever achieved because I got up, walked in there with an empty briefcase, and wore a suit and a tie. I was in character when I took that. Every question, I didn’t overthink it. I was an insurance salesman. I’m smiling when you say that because I have played that role before, and I know how to play it.

That’s what you were sharing way earlier when we first started talking. Fake it until you make it. You hate hearing that. I hate hearing it, too. This is another way for a firm owner or business owner to see this. The way to succeed is to put yourself into the person who is doing that thing. It’s almost like your superhero. Your superhero at that time was a successful insurance agent.

When I started my show, I had people telling me, “Michelle, you don’t know how to interview. You don’t know how to do this. You don’t know how to do that. What has you being able to start a show?” This is back in 2017. I said, “Who am I going to be to be that person who has a successful show? What do I need to do? I’m going to do those things and see how it works out,” and then it did.

Right out the gate, we had sponsors on my other show. I then figured out I’m only working with tax, accounting, and bookkeeping firm owners, so I started this show about six months later. On my first show, and even this one, if you check out some earlier episodes, we were making five figures a month in ads and sponsorships from brands. I was like, “I started this.” I got into that character. What would a successful podcast host look like? What would they do? What would they say? All of those things are so crucial.

It’s what you had shared. That’s how you pass the test at the top level. You showed up. Even though your briefcase was empty, you still had the briefcase. You were still in your suit and tie. You were that person. You were the top salesperson once they hired you. If you want to be a business owner or a successful accounting firm owner, what does that firm owner have to do, to be, and then present themselves? How are you going to show up to your computer every day? How are you dressed? What are those things that you have to do on a daily basis to be that person and get the result of having it?

In my class, I talk about this. I don’t remember the person who came up with it, but it’s be, do, have. You have to be the person that you’re not quite yet, and do the things that the successful person would do to have the result of being a successful accounting, bookkeeping, tax, or fractional CFO firm owner. You have to be in character. It’s the same thing. You have to be in this character that you’re not, and then you have to do those things that character would do.

For you, you showed up to your test. You came with your empty briefcase. You did the props. You did the outfit. You did all those things in your mind that shifted Rob into a successful insurance agent, taking this test that he has already passed a hundred times. It was like, “I have to do it every year for my license.” It was that attitude.

You nailed it. Sometimes, when you start talking about, “I got to mark this thing up. Where does my pitch go up?” You don’t have to worry about that. If you’re in character, your pitch will go up. These people that we’re interviewing, a lot of times, what are they doing right before they turn the doorknob and walk into this interview? They’re memorizing their elevator pitch again. That’s not going to help you. I got them to close their eyes and see themselves in incredibly successful situations, and then they walked in, not arrogantly, but powerfully. You don’t have to use the words. It’s there.

My daughter, one time, was interviewing. This was a couple of years ago. She had interviewed 4 times, and she got 4 offers. She said, “I don’t even know if I should go to this fifth interview.” I said, “Go, but be careful. Don’t put your feet up on the desk. You’re going to be so relaxed that it could almost work against you.” Imagine three straight successes. What you carry into a room or into a conversation and how you don’t have to look for where you’re going to change pitches, where you’re going to pause, or where you’re going to move your pace around, will all take care of itself.

It’s the mind. We’ve got to get our minds in the right place. I’m embarrassed as a sales trainer to have been teaching sales for over 25 years, at least, before I even got near this topic. I’m thinking, “How did we miss this? How do you tell people how to communicate with others without at least some conversation about the sounds we make and our attention to authenticity?”

The Penalty For Hope Is Disappointment

I love this. This is so good. Is there anything else that maybe we haven’t talked about yet that you feel is important to have firm owners to understand why people don’t believe in them? Is there anything else not only for the firm owner to believe in themself, but to get others to believe in them, more so than what we’ve talked about? This is so good. There’s a lot. Get into character. Go to Amazon and buy your supplies to be a successful firm owner. Buy all the things that you would need so you can start to be that person. Do the things that person would have to have a successful firm.

I’m going to answer your question this way. Sometimes, I can get all worked up. You’re getting worked up. There’s a lot of Pitch, Pace, and Pause in this conversation between the two of us, which is a good thing. Putting a good hit on that golf ball we were talking about and doing all these things doesn’t guarantee success. All it does is improve our odds for success. We always have to remember that we can do everything the right way and still not have the outcome come out the way we want. I don’t want that to damage people. This is part of life.

There’s one more quote I’m going to give you. It deals with hope. A lot of times, I get people who will tell me, “I’m going to meet with a client, but I don’t want to get my hopes up,” or, “I’m trying to do this with the firm, but I don’t want to tell anybody because I don’t want to get my hopes up.” There’s a lot of this hiding-our-hopes thing. It’s like, “Don’t be all in because your hopes will be damaged,” or whatever.

Here’s the quote. “There is a penalty for hope, and the penalty for hope is disappointment.” I said it. Everybody, take a deep breath and realize that that’s all there is. If we don’t want to be disappointed, we don’t have to hope for things. We can block that and say, “I’m going to do this, but we’re not getting our hopes up on this one because we don’t want to be disappointed.”

I look at that and go, “That’s completely wrong.” You need to reverse engineer that and say, “I am going to get my hopes up. I’m going all in on this merger with this firm. I’m bringing this. It might not work. If it doesn’t work, I’ll be disappointed, but I’d rather be disappointed, go in there hopeful, and never question my hope than be too afraid to hope.”

We can’t let hope get in the way. We got to utilize it and realize it’s not the boogeyman. It’s a little bit of disappointment. I’d be far more disappointed in myself if I were too afraid to hope and hedged my bets on certain things. Don’t hedge your bets. Go full throttle in there. Go get it. Play your ball. Don’t worry about anybody else’s. If it doesn’t work out this time, dust yourself off. Get one foot in front of the other, and let’s get the next one.

Get In Touch With Rob

Get back into character. Thank you so much for being here with us on another amazing episode. It was lovely to Pitch, Pace, and Pause with you. If someone wants to get one of your books, because they should, where is the best place to go?

Any bookstore online. Sometimes, I can even find myself in a Barnes and Noble physically, but that’s not easy because there are gazillions of books coming out every day. If you go to Amazon, I have an author’s page and things like that. You’ll see all my books there. Have at it.

Thank you so much for being here with us. It was a complete honor. I look forward to having you back again.

It was an absolute pleasure. It was great talking to you again.

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What an amazing episode with Rob. There were so many great things. I would love to say that the two most important things that you should have in your notes are to focus on your own game and pretend you are on the PGA golf tour. You’re playing golf for 4 days, and it’s day number 3. Maybe you’re going to take a peek at what another firm owner might be doing because it’s the last 2 or 3 holes. Up until then, you’re only focusing on yourself and your own game. We have to stop comparing ourselves, stop talking to other firm owners, stop seeing what other people are pricing their services at, etc. Focus on you. I love that so much.

The other thing is we have to put ourselves into character. If you have not figured out yet who that character is, that’s your homework. Sit down. Pencil out 20 to 30 different attributes that your character has. There is a penalty for hope. If you keep hoping things are going to change without making a conscious effort, you will be disappointed. There are ways that we can work on this in our mindset to make these shifts. Who do you need to be to do the things that you need to do to get the different results that you want to get in your firm? That is the homework that I would put into play right away.

If you’ve ever gotten off a sales call, or you continue to keep giving away free advice, or you continue to feel yourself caving in when it’s time to say your price in a sales meeting, you are not alone. Most firm owners, like you, have an incredible skillset, but you have zero structure around your sales. Your mindset is a little wobbly, and it’s costing you thousands of dollars every single month.

Here at The Abundant Accountant, I help you shift from giving away your time to commanding your value without feeling sleazy or aggressive, so you know the exact words on what to say. You’ll never freeze up again. If you would like to explore the challenges and the things that have kept you from getting to your goals in your firm, go to TheAbundantCall.com and book your free strategy call with me and my team. Let’s turn those conversations you’re having into conversions and money in your bank account.

If you’re ready to uncover those hidden obstacles that are hindering your firm’s growth, visit TheAbundantCall.com to schedule your complimentary strategy session with me and my team. On our call, we’ll analyze your current practice, identify the revenue blockers, and craft a personalized roadmap for you to potentially see how you can double, if not triple, your firm’s revenue without the need to chase new clients.

If you find our discussion valuable and you wish to collaborate further, we will outline how we could work together and implement what we talked about on our call. If you prefer to proceed independently, that’s perfectly fine, too. Perhaps you can send us referrals in the future. Remember, the only missed opportunity is not taking action. Go to TheAbundantCall.com and secure your spot. We look forward to speaking to you soon. Remember, there is a penalty for hope, and it’s disappointment. Don’t keep hoping things will change. Take action and make the change.

Important Links

• • Rob Jolles
  • Why People Don’t Believe You
  • The Abundant Call

About Rob Jolles

A sought-after professional speaker and five-time Bestselling author, Rob Jolles has spent over thirty-five years teaching, entertaining, and inspiring audiences worldwide. His career has taken him over 2.5 million miles in the air, and allowed him to amass a client list that reads like a Who’s Who of Fortune 500 companies, including Toyota, Disney, NASA, Lilly, Bristol Myers Squibb, Northrop Grumman, and over 50 financial institutions. His books have been featured in USA Today, Harvard Business Review, Publisher’s Weekly, and have been translated into over a dozen languages.